SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Clearing the air.

Inkhulk,

I am not the one in this marriage who made it a battleground whether PIV occurred in my wifes multiple affairs and ONSs. Shes the one who did that. I dont give a flying fuck that she did. She seems to find me not thinking that, no matter what, no matter how, is the most important thing.

What I do give fucks about is how important to her having me eat some total bullshit is.

Ive gone from her telling me she was having her ass smacked and being harassed at work, and getting fingered by a girl,

To kiss stealing and groping by two dudes and getting fingered by a girl,

To kissing and getting fingered by two guys and a girl, a dozen instances, never wanted to have sex because she only wanted to "be one with me"

To kissing and getting fingered by three guys and one girl, filling the whole fucking calendar over 9 months with back to back instances, sneaking around with condoms, researching birth control(which she would NEVER take for me), wanting to, masturbating about, snapchatting about having sex with "work boyfriend" but choosing not to "because she was getting that at home and didnt need it".

Thats where we are now.

Hikingout, I got revelations for days, I just dont have time to write it all out. Ive spent too much life energy on this.

I spent it because after betraying me, she doesnt get to fool me too. She doesnt get to continue on unseen. She just doesnt, and it was never up to her.

Im wrapping up the investigative portion of all this. The trail of peanuts is followed to the clown, and the clown is never going to admit eating any, short of me showing her a picture of her geting railed. Whole truth? I dont get it. Thats life. It sucks.

Final info drop. This is our texts from the night of sept 15, the nightclub incident.

Text Transcript with Notated Gaps of Sept 15 Nightclub Incident

H: her

M: me

H: I miss you so much! (7:18 PM)

H: Wish you were here love (7:20 PM)

H: How are you doing? (7:22 PM)

H: Its hard to be without a bay (7:26 PM)

H: Much best to be with you (7:27 PM)

M: sorry love, (car club Friend) called right as I shut the front door (7:30 PM)

H: No prob! Im sorry baby (7:30 PM)

M: I miss you too but youll have a ton of fun, and we will be together shortly (7:30 PM)

M: I feel lousy that I couldn’t pull it together but I simply can’t be around other folks right now. I’m too unsettled (7:31 PM)

H: I don’t want you to feel bad about it baby (7:32 PM)

H: I feel bad for you (7:32 PM)

M: You can call me if there is any trouble and l’ll come split some skulls (7:33 PM)

H: Thanks so much sweetie. My surrogate parents will look after me lol (7:33 PM)

M: I trust that such is the case (7:34 PM)

M: I wasnt worried. (7:34 PM)

H: I’m glad cutie (7:34 PM)

H: Can hardly bear to be apart from my love (7:35 PM)

M: It’s ok. Wont be long dove (7:36 PM)

H: yeah baby. So long as you’re ok (7:38 PM)

H: Id rather be with you always (7:38 PM)

H: hope you had a nice talk with (car club friend) and I didnt cut it short (7:38 PM)

M: It was fine. Love you (7:38 PM)

H: Love you so much! (7:39 PM)

H: We’re almost here (7:40 PM)

M: yay (7:40 PM)

H: I paid for parking 5 bucks for st judes since they didnt have cash on them (7:42 PM)

H: Social pressure haha (7:43 PM)

H: Plus they drove me (7:43 PM)

M: Its coo (7:43 PM)

M: Love the cub (7:43 PM)

H: Love you Cuber (7:46 PM)

H: I’m a lil fancy dressed but its kinda dark in here (7:48 PM)

M: How fun (7:49 PM)

M: Bein all fance (7:49 PM)

H: Everybody’s here with there significant others. I wanna hold your hand when I get home. (8:00 PM)

M: Yeah ok (8:01 PM)

H: Haha you so cupe (8:01 PM)

H: Doin ok? (8:01 PM)

M: Yeah. Lookin at stuff online (8:02 PM)

H: How good (8:04 PM)

H: Im so proud of you (8:04 PM)

[16-minute gap: 8:04 PM – 8:20 PM]

Note: This gap occurs while She is at the nightclub, likely socializing with (trusted friends E and her boyfriend) and the others early in the evening. It’s a moderate gap, possibly indicating she’s engaged in the club environment (e.g., socializing, procuring drinks) and not focused on texting.

H: Im just drinking beer to be safe (8:20 PM)

H: For my health (8:20 PM)

M: Lols (8:23 PM)

[16-minute gap: 8:23 PM – 8:39 PM]

Note: Another moderate gap while She is still at the club. She’s likely continuing to socialize or drink, potentially interacting with (J), (B), and (K), who she’ll later leave with. This gap aligns with her next couple of texts about dancing with (E) (8:39 PM), suggesting she’s active in the club setting.

H: Love you so (8:39 PM)

H: Danced with (E) (8:39 PM)

M: aww how fun (8:40 PM)

H: Twas fun (8:40 PM)

M: Love you so (8:40 PM)

H: Hows you? (8:40 PM)

M: Good. Tv and internet, pretty much like I said. (8:40 PM)

H: Hope you enjoy (8:42 PM)

H: Miss ya (8:42 PM)

H: Thanks for encouraging me to go though (8:42 PM)

M: Miss you too (8:42 PM)

H: is fun to have girlfriends (8:42 PM)

M: Glad its fun (8:42 PM)

H: Even though hard to part (8:42 PM)

H: Thank you baby (8:42 PM)

H: Cant wait to see you (8:42 PM)

M: you either (8:43 PM)

[22-minute gap: 8:43 PM – 9:05 PM]

Note: This gap occurs while She is still at the nightclub, continuing to engage in social behavior.

H: Hows my baby ray (9:05 PM)

M: Good. Hows you? (9:05 PM)

H: Good thanks (9:07 PM)

H: Excited to see you though cubs (9:08 PM)

M: you too bays (9:09 PM)

[13-minute gap: 9:09 PM – 9:22 PM]

Note: This gap is shorter but still occurs while She is at the club. It’s likely a continuation of socializing. A few of the following texts appear to have been sent to me in error, possible inebriation.

H: Sorry. about that (9:22 PM)

M: Aint no thang (9:23 PM)

H: I thought I knew where they were but it was blocked off (9:23 PM)

H: Thanks bays (9:23 PM)

[10-minute gap: 9:23 PM – 9:33 PM]

Note: This gap includes the events up to the moment She mentions (E and her boyfriends) fight, indicating rising tension that disrupts her initial plan to leave with them.

H: I feel so bad. I got E in trouble. (9:33 PM)

H: I had to pee when she was smoking (9:33 PM)

H: and he said why did (H) come in before you (9:33 PM)

H: looks like i may take the shuttle back (9:33 PM)

M: no no (9:34 PM)

M: ill come get (9:34 PM)

H: he said Im leaving in two minutes and he walked off (9:34 PM)

M: oh shit (9:34 PM)

M: should i head your way? (9:34 PM)

H: no not yet (9:35 PM)

H: thanks though sweet baby (9:35 PM)

H: im gonna see what happens (9:35 PM)

H: she said shed text me (9:35 PM)

H: thank you so much though (9:35 PM)

M: ill be right there pretty quick, just let me know (9:35 PM)

H: ok sweet baby. Thank you so much (9:36 PM)

H: I cant tell you how much that means (9:36 PM)

M: its no big deal (9:36 PM)

H: youre the best. (9:37 PM)

H: truly (9:37 PM)

M: aww thanks (9:37 PM)

H: baby its you. But i have been a good girl (9:38 PM)

H: and will continue to be (9:38 PM)

[3-minute gap: 9:38 PM – 9:41 PM]

Note: A brief gap, likely as She processes her plans after (E and her boyfriend) fight. She may be discussing her departure with J, B, and K during this time. E told me that decision was made after She refused to leave with them, "we made sure she had a safe ride home with B" The unprompted reassurance of being a "good girl" in the text prior to this gap implies otherwise intent, and she probably knew she would leave with them by this point.

M: so whats the story (9:41 PM)

H: its all good. We’re just hanging out (9:42 PM)

H: what up with you (9:42 PM)

M: sitting (9:42 PM)

H: bless of it (9:44 PM)

H: so good (9:44 PM)

H: i feel so bad that (He) got mad at E cuz it wasnt her fault. She was not attracted to him (9:45 PM)

M: is there still tension? (9:45 PM)

H: yeah. I get where hes coming from but its ridiculous. (9:46 PM)

M: muchness. (9:46 PM)

H: theyre sortin it out i think. I hope (9:46 PM)

H: yeah baby. You know it. (9:46 PM)

[12-minute gap: 9:46 PM – 9:58 PM]

Note: This gap occurs after (E and her boyfriend) likely left the club (around 9:40-9:45). I dont think they are at the club anymore; he was leaving ("in 2 minutes") at 9:34 and ("theyre sortin it out I think. I hope.") implying she doesnt actually know the current state of them.

H: hope youre well lovey (9:58 PM)

M: im good (9:58 PM)

H: im glad (10:01 PM)

H: actually not much going on here/ just listening to music (10:09 PM)

H: kinda boring but not bad (10:09 PM)

M: cool enough (10:09 PM)

H: yeah bays (10:12 PM)

H: its okay (10:13 PM)

[49-minute gap: 10:13 PM – 11:02 PM]

Note: Notably preceded by another unprompted reassurance, ("yeah bays, its okay") This is the most significant gap, spanning Her departure from the club (around 10:15 PM or earlier), the 30 minute drive to Winder (10:15 PM – 10:45 PM) during which B and K finger her, and the first 17 minutes at the house (10:45 PM – 11:02 PM). Her silence suggests she’s preoccupied with sexual activity in the car and settling in at the house. In the next several texts over several minutes, she conceals her whereabouts by omission in her responses despite my brief objections and alludes to possible pickup points near B and J’s house. She also refers to the people she is with as idiots who dragged her away, only mentioning K, while not tipping her hat that she isnt actually at the nightclub.

Therefore, she is likely already there and in a bathroom when she resumes texting, which makes sense, long car ride after drinking.

M: still doing good?(10:58)

H: K said if you could pick me up at hamilton mill qt that would be good if you really dont mind (11:02 PM)

M: when should i head out? (11:02 PM)

H: ill let you know. Hate for you to have to. (11:04 PM)

M: no im happy to (11:04 PM)

H: or it may be our exit (11:05 PM)

H: ill let you know (11:05 PM)

M: ok (11:05 PM)

H: I could have been famous. But these idiots dragged me away (11:05 PM)

M: what (11:06 PM)

H: suppose its for the best (11:06 PM)

H: whatever (11:06 PM)

M: riddles (11:06 PM)

H: ill let ya know (11:07 PM)

[31-minute gap: 11:07 PM – 11:38 PM]

Note: This gap occurs while She is at the house in Winder, between her two likely bathroom visits where she texts me things she wouldn’t in front of the group. It’s the most likely window for sexual activity (e.g., penetrative sex with J, possibly involving K or B), as it’s the longest uninterrupted period during her hour long stay. The lack of communication suggests she’s engaged with the group, consistent with a scenario of sexual activity. The following texts from her presumed second bathroom visit begins with a sexual pronouncement about K. I ask "what?" In disbelief, multiple times, receiving no explanations. She already knows she is about to leave while texting here, which somewhat discredits the ejected after screaming narrative. if that occurred, she wouldnt be so nonchalant.

H: wow. K is a lesbian. (11:38 PM)

H: who knew (11:38 PM)

H: or bi or something (11:38 PM)

H: something (11:38 PM)

M: how did that come out (11:38 PM)

H: she tried to finger me in the car (11:39 PM)

H: wtf (11:39 PM)

M: what (11:39 PM)

H: anyways ill get you an address asap (11:39 PM)

H: She said I could crash at her place (11:39 PM)

H: but… (11:39 PM)

H: lol (11:39 PM)

M: what (11:39 PM)

[7-minute gap: 11:39 PM – 11:47 PM]

Note: This brief gap occurs presumably as She prepares to leave Winder (departure at 11:45 PM). She’s likely coordinating with K and saying goodbye to the group, as her text about crashing at K’s place (rather than saying I could crash here for example) indicates they’re about to depart, havent yet, and she doesnt have the address yet, but intends to relate one "asap". I am concealing my anger at this point as I have just learned there was a car ride away from the club and an "attempted" fingering after I was quite clear about boundaries and her having me come get her if things went "off plan".

M: should I head out? (11:44 PM)

H: well K said to head to (address redacted), ga (11:47 PM)

H: im so sorry (11:47 PM)

[11-minute gap: 11:47 PM – 11:58 PM]

Note: This gap spans part of the drive from Winder to Dacula (11:45 PM – 12:04AM), which takes a little less than 20 minutes. I am simultaneously driving from Braselton to Dacula (11:50 PM – 12:17 AM). Her silence reflects possibly continued interaction with K, who "kept wanting to fool around" in Dacula. The only indication of distress when she begins texting again is that she might be stuck with K and would like me to confirm I am on the way. But I was driving and couldnt text.

H: whats up baby? You driving? (11:58 PM)

H: whats going on on bays (12:03 AM)

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 4:56 PM, Friday, April 18th]

Friend, I am utterly on team 5bd’s. I hope you read every word I write with that as the underlying assumption. And you can vent as much as is helpful to you, it’s a safe place.

I hear you saying the sex isn’t the point, it’s the lying. I get it.

You can’t Sherlock Holmes your way out of this. Either she puts together a comprehensive narrative that meets the moment both intellectually and emotionally, or she doesn’t. The time past, to me, is irrelevant. She could have done the digging you have. She could have told the truth from the beginning. She could have willingly and collaboratively talked about the A which would have jogged her memory. And it’s just more wrongdoing that she kept it hidden this long, making it harder for her to atone for what she did.

Friend, you are harming your own mental health by obsessing over these details. You know she’s trickle truthing you because the story keeps changing. The only way out of this is HER changing. The look in her face should change like a demon got exorcised. She should tell you details and motives that you never thought to ask about.

But you need to rest. You need to act as if she ran off with an AP and left you to pick up your own broken pieces. She did worse, she stayed and scattered and hid the shards. It’s wrong stacked on top of wrong. Protect yourself. Release yourself from the demand of getting the truth, it’s beyond your power. It’s only relevant to healing the relationship, anyway. Heal yourself. Give her space and time to see if she will change. I know how scary that is, to let go of the outcome. But you need to, it’s the way out of the insanity.

But you need to rest. You need to act as if she ran off with an AP and left you to pick up your own broken pieces. She did worse, she stayed and scattered and hid the shards. It’s wrong stacked on top of wrong. Protect yourself. Release yourself from the demand of getting the truth, it’s beyond your power. It’s only relevant to healing the relationship, anyway. Heal yourself. Give her space and time to see if she will change. I know how scary that is, to let go of the outcome. But you need to, it’s the way out of the insanity.

I watched ink go through this, maybe not the investigating stuff. I just want to say read this paragraph he wrote until it sinks in. He is 100 percent on point. I don’t know how many other ways to say it.

And you do not need to worry about explaining what’s new, I was trying to understand if there was a big picture change. But no? After your last post I see where you are coming from.

Please try and the in what ink (and we are all collectively saying as many different ways as we can think of. You are keeping yourself in a state of being that is very self destructive and I am concerned.

Yeah, I know.

I always knew that thinking this out and putting the crime scene together wasnt going to fix it. But the purpose it served was its own declaration of independence. Learning what was believable for myself in spite of, to spite the coverup.

Challenge accepted.

As much as the details hurt, its less than having been a useful idiot, a patsy, an object of ridicule for paying full price on what anyone with a dick can have for free.

And everything youve said is true. For what its worth, in as little as I trust anyone anymore, I never doubted the intentions of the people here, especially you, Inkhulk.

I craved for someone to see what was done to me in this. I cant really grasp why. Just need to not be alone in this experience.

I craved for someone to see what was done to me in this. I cant really grasp why. Just need to not be alone in this experience.

Understood, completely and totally understood. You have been outrageously wronged. You have been abused in multiple serious ways. Your kindness has been taken advantage of. I weep for you, genuinely.

I know that feeling of needed others to know. Oh man was I there.

I think somewhere, maybe subconsciously we need that because it’s so far out there and so fucked up we can’t believe it’s real. Like it had to be a movie script someone wrote while on shrooms.
I too hear your anguish and believe it.

My question to you;
Do you post these new revelations only because you need someplace to get them out, or are you also soliciting for ideas on where to go, what to look at next etc?

As much as the details hurt, its less than having been a useful idiot, a patsy, an object of ridicule for paying full price on what anyone with a dick can have for free.

I am going to kindly point you to what sisson said, because this is evidence of what he is saying. I will remind you to align yourself with your goals. Because your wife is not the only one who is her own worst enemy. I am leaving out of this thread now as I do not believe I can help you any more. I wish you the best.

My guess is that you're doing a job on yourself about what your W's actions say about you. If you want to change that, you have to change yourself - but my guess could be wrong. Odds are, IMO, whatever is going on inside you, IC is your way to a better life. No matter what, I think you're trying to deal with some sort of hole within you - and your W can't fill that in. You can't fill the hole from the outside; you have to fill it up yourself.

What @InkHulk said in post #182--and in his other posts on your thread actually.

What I am picking up here: There are an awful lot of sunken costs here that you have had to swallow in your relationship with your WW, and my hunch is that you are desperate to recover at least some of those sunken costs--even if not your marriage to WW itself. From someone who has made you a lot of promises but how does not seem to care all that much about helping you. Which means even more you sunk into failed R, which makes you even more desperate to recoup some of those sunk costs. So you are sticking around and throwing your good energy after bad.

This will do you in. For your own sake, consider disengaging from the Evil Shrew-Lady and start your healing--this includes working through the thicket of your anger, hurt, and pain. Which likely will include working through what you were told you needed to accept in a relationship (e.g., how you may have taken on beliefs such as how you needed to 'get with the program' and commit to someone even if she is unfaithful to you).

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:10 PM, Friday, April 18th]

So sorry 5BD. Heart goes out to you. That was so abusive. I do want to tell you I understand your desire to get all the truth you possibly can...it seems to me you are trying to piece together your reality.

From what I gather.... It is not so much about healing at the moment ..it is about knowing. And it is a way that you are being the man...here you are digging and finding in ways I certainly would not be able to.

I do believe you will heal. You are strong. I do suggest my friend...however ..that you draw near to the One who can still storms with a word. Absolutely nothing is hidden to Him. And I will tell you this....He loves truth, and He is truth. He also is able to bring to life, things that are dead.
Praying for you.🙏

I look at other forums. You are doing exactly what people all over the world are doing. Looking for surcease. This is so painful for you that you HAVE to connect. You need peace. Having others here know, and feel, the same pain helps.

I have two things I usually write about. The first is…do you want to live like this for the rest of your life. If you don’t only you have the power to get out of, survive, infidelity. The ball is in your court. You don’t need any more info.

The second is to be the broken record of telling you that every day you live like this is harming you physically and mentally.

The more you write, the more I think you're suffering because of things you tell yourself, and that self-talk can be changed. In fact, the only reason for having hope is that you can change your self-talk.

I don't see evidence that your W or and of the aps attacked you. Your W was a pushover, but how do her dysfunctional actions change you permanently? You weren't acting as her agent. She wasn't acting as yours. You had and continue to have a free choice. You can dump her.

I gather that you wish you had acted more forcefully 12 years ago. You can't change that, but you can accept that you made the wrong decision the, and forgive yourself. Now you have a chance to make a new decision. No one here - and we are the experts - will fault you for acting forcefully now.

Here's the thing: 1) if you want to R based on the intervening years, choosing to R meets the requirements of 'acting forcefully; and 2) if you want to dump her and D, that meets the requirements, too.

Forceful action comes from inside, irrespective of what others thing. I get your angst. I'm very sorry you've suffered so long. I'm very happy, though, that the power to stop suffering lies within you. You've got the power. You decide how you want to use it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:49 PM, Saturday, April 19th]

Sisoon,

Im suffering because Im traumatized. My ability to adequately cope is obviously in the ballpark of some trauma disorder that preceded my wifes affairs. EMDR is the only thing thats helping. But its not magic.

There was absolutely an attack. It wasnt a physical attack. But an intentional, deeply personal attack nonetheless.

She took me out into social situations with these people. They treated me like shit. She watched them bully me, stood by, and manipulated me into absorbing the abuse by acting like I was a bad dude who didnt care about her career and reputation if I didnt sit there and take it. Everyone knew but me, and everyone but me was in on the amusement.

There was coordinated gaslighting, and they used consensus to assault my boundaries and play mind games. Jokes at my expense, comments about my shitty clothes.

I went to try to help J fix a flat tire, and days later while sexually messing around to whatever extent they were, they laughed about how they "almost" felt bad.

I took it all hard, and behind the scenes, she would comfort me with platitudes about how people just suck, and some people just get left out.

She fostered sexual relationships with people she watched abuse me. She hugged them in front of me and they smirked in my face.
One of them smugly used my cars paintwork to tie his shoe, knowing that my car was a point of pride to me after probing me for "what Im into". It was ass beating time, and I was inclined and capable. But I took it like a shmuck instead, Didnt want to harm Ww with my petty male vanity.

All the times she was at work, making out with an AP (at best), and then came home and kissed me open mouth before asking me if Id done her dirty by looking at porn while she wasnt around! It was a big joke!

She snuck off with them during the nightclub incident, having me come pick her up after her fun. They drove her all over creation, but took her somewhere else to have me go out and pick her up rather than drop her off because it was funny that I would. Scorpion stings frog. LOL. LMAO.

Worst, ww knew I was bullied to the point of leaving school. She knew I was a victim of serial cheating in my previous longest relationship. She knew I was abused by family, and witnessed people burn to death in a car crash as a child. She knew these things woke me up in cold sweats for years before she cheated.

The pushover act is an accountability dodge. Fiction. She feathered her ego with this shit. She chose it. One of her biggest secrets in all of this was the intentional cruelty of these grown up children, and her part in the reindeer games.

In any case, that was all in the affair fog. She got her own shit kicked in when J started to brag and gossip to people she lost the respect of. When her boss took her off well tipped shifts, and when customers wives started suddenly being present with skeptical intention. Reputation shifted from funtime girl to out-of-control fuckup, and The sun set on the validation. and with the bloom fallen off, the thorny bush lost its appeal.

Thats when she remembered me. The love, safety, and support. Thats when she reinvested herself in us. Not because she cared about my feelings, not because she was "scared her grandmother would see her from heaven". Because I was a soft place to land. A loving man building a loving future. I wasnt plan B, I just wasnt the cake, which tasted like shit halfway in.

I know its on me. I let it happen. I didnt, in my defense, understand it for what it was, and accepted the misrepresentation. We walked forward with half of our partnership knowing, building a seemingly beautiful relationship over the next 11 years. Forgiving myself for being snowed after everything else that should have prepared me to see through it is a big ask.
So obviously you are correct, and I realized that throughout.

Without me having informed consent, we bought a house and then married. And then I found out how much worse it was, and how my guts were right. All that beauty, hard work and pride turned into bile.

Now all the weight is on me to save me and Ive got to reconfigure myself to heal. Its badly unfair. I did the right things. I loved so beautifully, for perhaps the last time I will ever let my guard down to that extent.

And she was just a hot, selfish, insecure kid who desperately wanted to be cool and feel alive then. I could see it for that if she found it in herself to care about me enough to give me the respect of full disclosure. but she couldnt, or wouldnt, do that.

The other day, she said to me, "ya know, 5bd, I was really just test driving new cars to see what they were like without intending to buy one."

I said, "thats great, real helpful, I feel loads better Ww."

Its all bitterness and codependency and injustice in this skull. Obviously my self talk isnt great! I remember EVERYTHING, especially shit I dont want to. I overthink everything. And Im the only constant cast character in a long and awful autobiography. So not blaming myself doesnt seem very in alignment with how smart I think I am.

Bitching about it is me validating myself. Giving myself permission to feel hurt and pissed and say it out loud.
I got a reason, I got the right.
And either way Ive got a 1000 square miles of self to unfuck.

You guys say free yourself. But its not that simple. I freed myself last time and fell right into this situation. All my needs and feelings are in conflict with each other. I love the woman and grieve the outcome.
Im gonna stay where l am this time and fight for better until Im outta gas. Theres your forceful action.

each of you come here for community for your own reasons. And Its not because you feel whole and free. Very kindly, though, you want others to be. You have such good souls. It warms the cold in me.

Happy Easter to all of you, and happy anniversary to me and my wife.

I agree, you were psychologically attacked. What you describe could be a plot of a movie and every one watching would know.

I’m certainly not advising you from a place of perfection, you can see my update thread and see I’m far from a finished work. You can see that as a problem, or you could see it as me being a few miles down the road you are now walking. It’s up to you how to view that.

And of course you can choose whatever you want to do with your one precious life. Do as you will. I would just say to you that what you are calling "fighting" is flailing at the wind. It isn’t making progress toward healing you nor healing the relationship. All it is doing is continuing to demonstrate your WW deceptiveness, and you seem to have no boundaries of how much is too much. I fear that puts you on the path toward the worst possible outcome, staying with an unremorseful wayward.

There was a thread written last year by a member with hannah in her user name. It was a "I’ve wasted so much time" thread with unusual potency. Maybe see if you can find that.

5BD

Respectfully, if you had a lifelong friend who was where you are, would you advise them to stay? After what you’ve been put through and continue to endure, what are you really fighting for?

5bluedrops,

This is going to be my last comment on your thread, at least until you come back with a specific question or need for guidance.

Do you trust the woman who betrayed you, put your sexual health at risk, subjected you to humiliation and ridicule, and continues to gaslight you to breaking point of your sanity to be someone who you could trust to be by your side in the event you were ever seriously ill or incapacitated? Do you think she would make life or death decisions on your behalf that are your best interests? Further, do you believe that a person with the emotional maturity and impulse control of 7-year-old coupled with the memory of a goldfish is even capable of good judgment to act on your behalf?

Don’t continue to make bad decisions as a young man with many options that an old man with few options will be forced to live with.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:16 PM, Sunday, April 20th]

5BD...I feel for you my friend. You are in the midst of grieving. Please allow yourself to feel. Message me anytime. Here for you. Brother hug to you.

Inkhulk,

I feel you. Literally, I am feeling what youve felt.

Id characterize what Ive been doing as raging at the sea for getting me wet and trying to drown me. Its not effective for changing my situation.

I know how irrational I seem to be. but allow me to rationalize it a bit for you;

I was increasing my comprehension of the whole of what was concealed and foisted on me. This served the intention of taking back the power of the trickle truth over me, and seizing control of my perception of reality.

And Im now grieving the learned context, calculating the losses, processing the feelings from that, and examining the parts in my relationship that are dysfunctional and unwholesome to begin addressing boundaries. Hopefully I have enough plasticity to do that.

Trust isnt looking particularly…um…alive?

And the bitterness Im finding in me is daunting. But worth conquering, for my own sake.

Ive got a process thats unfolding here, I have an infidelity specialist, and two stubborn dipshits, neither of which is going to be the one who blinks first, but at least are unwilling to give up on the other. Theres not much but whats here is mine.

Ff4152,

The nearest I can do you from my personal experience, is watching my brother refuse to see that his youngest daughter was using heroin. He had her in a hospital bed a week before her 18th birthday, with what was, in my view, a final chance to get her on a different track before she disappeared into the streets.

He refused to have her drug tested. A month later, he had to kick her out because she was nodding off in the house. Half a year later, she had Od’d and coded out twice. Second time was rock bottom and she has been able to maintain more than a year of sobriety.

My attempts to impose my best judgement on his situation didnt pan out. My intention was to save her life, I saw it for what it was, and he couldnt yet.

But its entirely possible my interference would have exacerbated the situation, by subtracting her agency. My attempt to subvert her ability to choose mightve Delayed her recovery. Or she mightve not even made it. Who knows. Que Será, Será Whatever Will Be, Will Be.

What am I fighting for? Hope, and love. A marriage we both deserve. Justice. Loss mitigation. To rescue myself from a lifetime of neglect by winning this, and not running away or ignoring it. To derive existential meaning by proving capability. Opportunity.

Opportunities

1. Success here conquers multiple demons that have plagued me for a lifetime.
2. Success means Preservation of our family.
3. Continued work on this together increases knowledge of each other.
4. Pulling this off will require us both to grow, badly need.
5. Its a chance to have the marriage I deserve with the woman I want.
6. Snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
7. Surviving and thriving would make an awful stumble into a testament
8. Dreams will be realized, promises will be kept
9. Success means healing, but also a new start
10. Bypass loss of progress toward goals
11. Proof of strength, love, capabilities to each other will boost our sorry confidence, self esteem.
12. Repayment of our past cruelties and indignities towards each other by renewed commitment and fresh start

Bluerthanblue,

Answering you honestly,

No. I dont trust her for any of that. But, I trust her more for that than anybody else. Shes not merely the best of a bad situation. Shes the one who chose me in the end. My family all but enslaved me. She bailed me out of that.

And yeah, once she had me to herself, she fucked me over.

Maybe shes white knuckling it, or maybe she really already learned her lesson.

Wont know if she would fuck me over again till I find out.

And that would be true of anyone, by the way. A lifetime of love and ties that bind could be rinsed off in an instant by someone who doesnt have it in them to care for that person in a diminished capacity.

If I was single in your supposed situation, Id be fucked too.

But I take your point.

Woodthrush,

Thanks dude. I appreciate you so much.

I read through the details of this and it got pretty tough towards the end. After all the pre-text the comment about "test driving other cars with no intention to buy" just hit me hard. I see you are hyperanalyzing this and I don't need to understand the why behind that it is for you. Just zooming out though it seems like you are married to a women who just stomped on your heart repeatedly while laughing about it behind your back. You respond by analyzing the entire context of the situation for what reason exactly? Is this a way to process so you can move forward with her? Sort of taking pride in the resilence you are going to show as you push through this to prove to yourself you are not the person you were made out to be by your WW? It seems like a form of the pick me dance that you recogonize and want to feel good about when she does pick you. All the while, it would seem she is watching you on the sidelines while you go through all this and just saying to herself "aww, he isn't the man I thought he was I'm going to support him as he processes". I don't know I will say I just wish you the best and I hope you are taking care of yourself during this process.

I feel you. Literally, I am feeling what youve felt.

I know, I recognize it clearly.

Id characterize what Ive been doing as raging at the sea for getting me wet and trying to drown me. It’s not effective for changing my situation.

Agreed.

I know how irrational I seem to be. but allow me to rationalize it a bit for you;

I was increasing my comprehension of the whole of what was concealed and foisted on me. This served the intention of taking back the power of the trickle truth over me, and seizing control of my perception of reality.

I was thinking about what the purpose is for the intense need to investigate that comes with betrayal as I was replying to your last post. I think both things you outline here are valid motivations, taking back power and generating understanding. Unfortunately, neither have clear endpoints, which can lead to the flailing. How much power is enough to reclaim? How much understanding is adequate? My answer to the second one is once you uncover that your partner is still concealing information from you, that is all enough to be an end point. You can then successfully protect yourself by getting away. If your partner is truthful, it won’t look like what you are describing. They will take on the burden of rebuilding trust.

What I’m saying is you’ve already taken back power, and you already have your answer. Your fight needs to evolve, or end.

And Im now grieving the learned context, calculating the losses, processing the feelings from that, and examining the parts in my relationship that are dysfunctional and unwholesome to begin addressing boundaries. Hopefully I have enough plasticity to do that.

Trust isnt looking particularly…um…alive?

And the bitterness Im finding in me is daunting. But worth conquering, for my own sake.

I also get this. Infidelity broke things in me that I didn’t know could be broken. I’m authentically angry at God in ways I would have never thought possible. I find the story of Job to be comforting in this.

Ive got a process thats unfolding here, I have an infidelity specialist, and two stubborn dipshits, neither of which is going to be the one who blinks first, but at least are unwilling to give up on the other. Theres not much but whats here is mine.

You have to work your process, I get it, no jumping to the end. Best we can do is point out hazards along the path. Stubbornness won’t get you thru this. Neither will love alone. Both will buy you some time. I do wish you the best.

5BD....seeing your last answer....you are getting your arms around this battle. I think you are in a great place with a great mindset....and amazing determination. My bets are on you. I really hope she is in same place...if she is ..you two will conquer. I will continue to pray for you. And my suggestion again ...not knowing your belief system....seek Him who can raise the dead, still the storm, and change night to day....and make a new heart and a new life. ❤️

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 3:45 PM, Monday, April 21st]