SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Something that I have noticed about affairs is that the cheating spouse loses respect. Sometimes it’s prior to meeting AP, but it seems that a vast majority "lose respect " once AP enters the picture. How petty. I put quotes around lose respect because really this is a fundamental flaw with the cheater.

I don’t know if I’m in R, I know many here would tell me I’m a moron for even considering it after everything. I’m trying right now to just have a good relationship with my WW, because we have 5 young and they are more important. Does it mean continued marriage? I don’t know, what I am working on is just rebuilding our relationship, she’s receptive to that and us being good around each other makes our kid’s life better. She said something though that has bothered me immensely. She told me she isn’t my enemy and we will never heal as long as I see her that way. Yeah no shit, but I don’t think I’m wrong for seeing her that way.

She certainly was, for three years. Choosing her boyfriend over our marriage and family certainly makes her the enemy in my mind. I don’t care how remorseful she is now, doesn’t change that she chose to become my enemy repeatedly, and of course blamed me for it. She’s probably remorseful now, though I’ve heard it all before and I definitely don’t trust her at all.

How does it work, how do you flip sides and then act like well we are a team now. How do I tell her she’s going to have to accept that no matter what happens she became my worst enemy and that stain never comes out?

How do I tell her she’s going to have to accept that no matter what happens she became my worst enemy and that stain never comes out?

That take makes perfect sense. It’s a take though, that sounds like you’re already done and gone. Which is totally understandable. I’m just responding to your thoughts of sticking around despite how you feel now.

I think if "no matter what happens" is your focus, then R isn’t remotely possible.

For me, it became about what my wife aimed for now, today. If I was going to stay, it had to be about what we were building versus what the A destroyed.

You can choose to focus on the absolute worst about the past or choose to offer her a shot to show she is more than her worst choices. I’m sure better than my worst days, worst choices, so I let my wife show me she was on my side.

I’ll always hate what happened, I found it wasn’t helpful for me to hate her as well.

Pretty tough to rebuild if enemy is how you see her.

Well but your WW *is* your enemy. She is actually an enemy to your 5 kids too, taking POSOM's side over theirs.

And so your one concern should be protecting your kids (and yourself) from WW. And so on that note, your concern should not be about having a "good relationship" with her (impossible, AND your efforts in that regard are probably extremely damaging to your kids as it may be minimizing your WW's actions against them, as well as showing a lack of self-respect on your part--your sons are modeling your behaviour you know).

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:25 AM, Thursday, April 24th]

Oldwounds,

I do agree with you, but I am deeply struggling with how to get there. If WW had confessed everything and ended the A all the way back on DD 1, I do believe it would be easier. Instead it got dragged out to a false R and dd2 and then after all of that drama, finding out she never went NC for an extra two years, all the while telling me how sorry she was and all the other right things. That’s where I’m stuck.

WBFA,

I have self respect. And I hope my son models me. I have protected him when no one else would. I went to court for him to make sure AP would stay out of his life. I made sure that he was safe at school, and that he had an open door to me at anytime, and I got him to amazing therapist. More importantly, I never made him feel that he had to chose between me and his mom. He can love his mom and still love me and it won’t damage our relationship. He knows what happened, but he is still only a kid. What’s more he sees that I can be hurt but doesn’t mean I have to make the world suffer because of it. I am still polite and respectful to WW, especially in front of kids. Doesn’t make me a doormat, it means that my relationship with her doesn’t have to affect anyone but her. My kindness is not weakness

Hell —

What has she done to own her actions and choices?

With the extended lack of NC, the continued lies, she has to understand why you still see her as someone not to be trusted. If she doesn’t, that’s a red flag.

Words definitely lose meaning after an A, her actions are far more important.

Only consistent, relentless effort to be better and do better, the work of repairing her issues and helping you repair the M can give things a chance for you to get un-stuck.

When you say she is "probably remorseful" — I’m not sure what that means.

Wanting to keep the family together isn’t being a moron, but if your WS is still blaming you in any way or the M, then there isn’t anything to work with.

I can relate to the struggles you are having in this situation. My perspective is shaped by a personal story that highlights why I could never see a betrayer than anything other than the bad guy.

Growing up, my father worked away three to five days a week. This left my mother juggling part-time work and the immense responsibility of raising three kids on her own. When the news of his infidelity came to light, we were all still young, but our hearts ached for her. We witnessed her struggle, the palpable sadness that seeped into our home's corners. Though she fought to shield us from her heartache, her pain was inescapable—like a shadow that lingered even in moments of laughter.

Years later, after the dust settled from that storm, I found myself questioning why my mother had even attempted to reconcile with him. For a few years, she held onto the hope of change, but he merely became a master at concealing his wrongdoings. I was baffled. How could she continue to extend an olive branch to someone who had caused her so much suffering? How could she act as if he were anything other than the enemy?

In a moment of vulnerability, I asked her, "How can you genuinely wish someone who stabbed you in the back a good day as they leave for work? How can you celebrate their successes? How can you want them to thrive in life after all they’ve done?"

Her answer surprised me: "You don’t just think about the betrayal all the time."

For her, perhaps that was true, but for me, I couldn't escape it. I would think of the betrayal all the time. I couldn’t fathom wishing him well or rejoicing in his achievements. The anger and hurt loomed too large in my heart. Betrayal is the deepest of cuts. It's for very good reason that Dante kept the center of hell for those who betray.

If I found myself in your shoes, I would seek to cut ties as much as possible. To be honest, if it weren’t for the kids, I might even actively hope she had a terrible life. But ultimately, my aim would be to get her out of your mind—much like I've learned to do with others who drifted in and out of my life. Including my father.

Reconciliation may be a path some take, but I’ve come to understand that it’s not a journey everyone can—or should—embark on. Ultimately some people can take the disrespect, forgive and move forward. But others, the likes of me (and perhaps you), would never be able to see the person as anything other than the enemy.

All of this is to say, I have no advice for you other than to say, I relate. I'm not religious but I truly feel thankful I don't have kids with a cheater. I fear what it would drive me to do. In all likelihood, I'd be an absent father, unable to bring myself to be around my own children as it would mean communicating with their mother. So the fact you are where you are, places you a moral rung above myself.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 10:05 AM, Thursday, April 24th]

I believe that remorse has different definitions to different people. To me, someone who is remorseful for their actions truly understands the full impact(s) of what their actions brought. Whether it be infidelity/addiction/you name it---in my opinion, the perpetrator gets *it*.

Your wife may get there; she may not. But if she does, she would fully understand your current apprehension. My wife, 10+ years later, understands that I have not forgiven her, and may never do so. She doesn't ask for forgiveness. She's appreciative that we are still together, and like many people with now well-enforced boundaries, tries to be the best version of herself. The person during her drinking/affair times is someone that repulses her---for what she did to herself and her family. That is something that many can build on.

And I highly doubt that you view her as your enemy. You view her with very wary optimism, as should be expected. You've had your world shattered, and misled while under the assumption of reconciling....for years. She's not the real deal right now. At best, she's working on becoming such, with an unfortunate lack of self-awareness at this point. At worst, she's the exact opposite. Only time will tell. In a mathematical explanation, remorse is *continued and consistent actions over time*. Not enough time has elapsed, and not enough consistent actions have occurred. Her understanding your very justifiable mindset would be a good start.