SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ask for her phone. When she asks why tell her you are sending it to a company that specializes in recovering lost/deleted emails texts calls etc. If (when) she says there's no reason for that OR she simply says NO then you know there's more to her affair.

gr8ful,

Sorry, but I can't agree.

For the timeline: She has already given multiple timelines and stories verbally. Now, she has reasons why they are all not truthful or some of them are partially at one time truthful and others are not truthful. That doesn't make sense. She is standing by that story. There's no reason why she would agree to this being the final and totally truthful timeline of events, but she might do so, if she frames it in a way that benefits her with only what he can prove. She changes her mind. I don't see how writing it down right now makes any difference.

For the polygraph: If I failed a test, I would want multiple times to pass it. Of course I would. We all would prefer multiple times to pass a test. If I took it 1 or 10 times and failed it every time, but I finally passed it once, would you believe the results? If it were a test on honesty of past events, and not acquired knowledge, I mean. I don't think I would.

This situation is difficult.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 11:15 PM, Tuesday, March 24th]

Well you've got minimization which is a common cheater tactic. She escalated her behaviour getting more of a high from each encounter. The escalation will result in sex. But you already know that. She's trickle truthing you. You need to get your finances in order and get ready for a very messy divorce. She may come out of it but not without bottoming out first. I had evidence. I then bluffed her that I knew what she did after waking her up from a dead sleep. She literally vomited out what she did. I put the suitcase on the bed she asked what I was doing. I told her she had to leave. She went to her knees and begged me to let her stay. She said she had nowhere to go. I guess the APs hotel room wasn't that appealing anymore. So unless you can get her to bottom out your in for a ride on the crazy train. Waywards make no sense in the fog. They will eat thier own hand to get that next hit.

Your wife is going all out to control the situation, and you, from as many angles as she can think of, without recognizing that many of her actions make her look guilty, and without doing the things that you need her to do, like open up emotionally, sever contact with 'Mark', and support you rather than fight you.

There are several actions that sound like someone preparing for a court case, rather than trying to repair damage to a relationship:

hired a PI for about $3,000

wants the PI to look at cell phone GPS records to show she and Mark weren't together for long periods

she now says she was trying to buy time so that she could later gather video footage, phone records, and witness statements to show that she was not with Mark on those dates or at those times and that the physical story was false.

Cell phone GPS records only work when people have their cell phones switched on. If one, or both, had their phones switched off, there will be no evidence, or incomplete evidence. If your wife knows enough to suggest using phone GPS evidence, she will know the effect of switching phones off. Video footage, phone records, and witness statements? Suitable for a courtroom, but all miss the big questions about why any of that is necessary, why she hired the guy, why he had to leave the school within a year, and why he came back and hung around so much. You aren't running a surveillance operation, you are trying to get at the nature and extent of your wife's relationship with the guy, which she keeps avoiding or minimizing. If she is the one gathering the evidence, she is the one who controls it, and she can leave out anything incriminating. Witness statements give her control of which witnesses to speak to, and which are best avoided.

wants Mark to cooperate

wants Mark to take a polygraph too

when she contacted the PI, she gave Mark’s information and told the PI that he was "willing to cooperate" and wanted this "cleared up too." She now says she was just assuming that and has not speaking to him, but to me that still shows she was treating him as part of her defense rather than someone she needed distance from.

You nailed it when you caught her out in her continued contact with someone she should have severed all ties with if she is remotely interested in saving the marriage. Instead, it sounds like they are working on a joint defense, which indicates more of a relationship than your wife wants to admit to. She just doesn't get it. It is almost like she wants to prove nothing was going on so she can continue her relationship with him, which is what caused this problem in the first place.

She is also insisting that I produce whatever evidence or "proof" I supposedly have, because she says she does not believe I really have any, and if I do, she believes it is inaccurate, misleading, manipulated, or even fake. So at this point, the situation feels less like a truth process and more like she is trying to disprove my conclusion.

A crude attempt at control, followed by the old 'fake news' ploy. Again, what your wife misses by a country mile, and what causes you distress, is that none of that is about proving her love/fidelity for you, repairing the damage to the relationship, or acknowledging the emotional pain this has caused you. Those should be her priorities, not exonerating herself in a court of law.

An acronym often mentioned in this forum is DARVO. "DARVO is an acronym for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender, a common manipulation strategy used by perpetrators (often abusers or narcissists) to avoid accountability when held responsible for their actions. By denying wrongdoing, attacking the accuser, and playing the victim, they reverse the roles to make the true victim seem guilty." There are elements in what you have been subjected to that fit the bill, and it is no wonder they have left you feeling distressed.

At the same time, she still sends love notes, wants affection, wants closeness, and says she wants to save the marriage while also telling me she wants to buy me out of the house rather than have us sell everything we own (rental properties plus primary residence).

Yet more attempts at control. Control of your emotions, and control of the potential outcome if a divorce happens. It all contributes to your emotional turmoil, rather than supporting and reassuring you, which really ought to be your wife's prime focus. I am sorry that you are being put through this. Many here have been through the same, and will support you. As far as any agreements or arrangements in the event of a divorce go, do not agree to anything before you have spoken to your lawyer. If it does come to divorce, you need the best outcome for you and the kids, not the best outcome for your wife (which she seems to already be planning for).

[This message edited by M1965 at 12:29 AM, Wednesday, March 25th]

With her shifting stories of the truth, the simplest answer is more likely the truth.
She was the teacher he was involved with the first year. The chemistry existed between them both. (why she was trying to pair him off with another to limit the temptations. He left to prevent consequences to her job. He stayed attached to continue contact. Boundaries were crossed much earlier than she has ever admitted. You are potentially looking at a ten year affair. In 10 years, this isn't just a kiss or three. I wouldn't even consider staying without a full written confession tested by another polygraph. Everything you described is someone in damage control mode. Not someone that regrets.

I will make it easy for you:

Consider sexual holistically

- from the looks to penetration is the same, is a spectrum of the same thing. Whether you draw the line is artificial, to trick yourself into thinking where is the step where your forgiveness is still "acceptable ".

The truth is nowhere.

The moment she and the OM are engaging in any way and there is no backing up from your partner, but a feeling of validation, is betrayal.

All the bullshit is only she, gauging how much you can take and her ego still getting away intact.

The answe is zero.
Theirs is no getting away, there is acknowledging for both bs and WS, there’s regret from both, there is healing for both and then we shall see.

Don’t torture yourself with this spiral, it doesn’t matter, is trickle truths and a game of gaslighting and confusion against your health.
Don’t play, you know enough.

She will only tell once she heals and deeply regrets what she has done.

If she won’t, you know she has to go.
Like the person who she is now, just have to go.

Only real change may grant the grace of a second chance, and no one is entitled or deserves it, it can only come from you, if, not when.
But for sure not now

It sounds like you are dealing with a person who is a liar to the core, much like those who can be caught red-handed and still deny the truth with total conviction. This level of deception often borders on the sociopathic, where the lie is maintained even when the evidence is smeared right across their face. From what I've read my gut feeling that this has been a long-term sexual affair since he was hired all the years ago. I suspect if you were to finally get her dam to crack the sheer volume of the truth might be drown you. Prepare your self for at least the possibility of an on and off sexual affair for years. All that said, this is just my gut reaction from reading a limited amount of facts.

​all of the above aside you must recognize that you are currently in an abusive relationship, and it is neither wise nor moral to suggest that anyone stay in such a situation. Gaslighting is a powerful tool that can literally drive a person mad; having experienced it myself, I know it is often far more damaging than the separation caused by the cheating itself. It reaches a point where those close to you begin to fear for your sanity because the psychological toll is so profound.

​Since you have already filed and she is still maintaining her cover story, she has shown she will do almost anything to avoid admitting the truth. As the divorce barrels down, you could let the clock tick toward the deadline and offer one final "now or never" opportunity. You can ask her if she wants to finally admit the truth to see if it is something you can move past, or if she intends to go down with her story.

​While this tactic might get you a further grain of truth, it is unlikely to ever result in the full story. Ultimately, you are left with the choice of living with a lie and trying to forget, or leaving the liar entirely. Trust is gone, and for many, living with that level of dishonesty is simply not an option

To the original poster,

It really doesn’t matter what she says & does at this point. You have filed, you had good reason to file for D & you don’t need to prove anything to the cheater.

At a point in time you decided you had enough of the lies and deception and disrespect.

So now anything she says or does is just to irk you and to get you to doubt yourself so that she can still control the situation.

You know what they say - "an educated consumer is a smart consumer" and the same holds true for betrayed spouses or partners. You are no longer living in a world where you don’t know who she really is.

And you made your decision to D based on a set of facts. You then don’t owe the cheater anything more than a fair settlement and co-parenting in the best way possible.

Ignore her remarks. Keep moving forward