SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There are no children around, we are all in our 40's except her aunt who is 70.

I don't mean to sound like i'm not agreeing with any of you. I agree 100% that this is inappropriate behavior and i have a reason to not like it. I stand by the fact that she has not been sexual with him, nor do i think she would. She is deeply devoted to me. But the talk and the antics are way out of line. And since she is 1) deeply devoted to me, and 2) this is her cousin, i would not have been surprised if people here told me that i am overthinking this and it's just 2 grown up mature people having fun and there's nothing to be worried about...afterall, they're cousins. And that was an argument i was willing to disagree with. Cousin, no sexual contact, nothing inappropriate on her phone...doesn't seem like cheating. However she transforms into another person around him and it's disturbing. So i'm grateful to have the backing of others that this is outrageous. Cheating does not need to involve sex. Flirting does not need to have sex as the goal. Everything she's done/said is flirtatious and inappropriate if you are married. Regardless who it is. I will be monitoring his 5 day visit soon via camera/audio. And obviously in person after work. I have a confrontation speech at the ready....and as someone mentioned, i'm not afraid to speak up in front of everyone and make a scene when all of our guests are around that weekend.

Him staying at your home while you are not there provides opportunity. I’m just sayin………

🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

I’m calling out her "deep devotion to you". If she were so deeply devoted WHY does she disrespect you and act like she does in front of her cousin?

Please please please stop viewing her through rose colored glasses. View her in the reality she is in - completely infatuated with this guy cousin.

And not afraid to broadcast it in front of family. Which again, is very disrespectful to you.

She’s testing your boundaries. Plain & simple. Willing to see how far she can take it before you get upset or push back.

Based on my experience I would not allow her to host this guy in your home unless you are going to be there w/ them 100% of the time. Spend enough time here at SI and you will see how devious cheaters can be to rendezvous ( ) with the affair partner.

And since she is 1) deeply devoted to me

This statement seems to be in opposition to this one.

looking through me and never taking her eyes off him when he's in the room

I dunno man. I see an emotional affair. Cousin or not, that's what it appears to be to me. I know it's a taboo in most cultures, but some cultures not only condone it, they encourage it. So its not as universally taboo as say, sibling relationships. Cousin relationships happen fairly often with humans and sometimes it's even expected.

I think marriage counseling might be the ticket here. I agree with others that a neutral party mediating between you 2 could possibly open her eyes. I'd feel the same way you do if my wife was acting that way.

*ETA: Someone brought up GSA (Genetic Sibling Attraction) earlier. That could apply here. It's a phenomenon where siblings who weren't raised together and meet up after a long period of separation feel a romantic pull toward each other. This occurs because the Westermarck effect, an evolutionary mechanism that typically desensizes individuals to sexual attraction toward those raised in close proximity during the first few years of life was never activated due to the separation.

Factors contributing to this attraction include phenotypic matching, where individuals are drawn to the familiar physical traits and body odors of their genetic relatives, and potential narcissistic identification with someone who shares their fundamental genetic makeup.

I mean, I have no clue if that's what's going on here, but it is a potential explanation.

[This message edited by Pogre at 3:43 PM, Wednesday, July 15th]

There's a reason for the term "Kissing Cousins".

I am going to bring something very uncomfortable into this conversation. It has become almost an expected reaction of children who are reunited with birth families. Children who were given up at birth and found a father can occasionally begin an affair with him. Siblings do the same thing. A family that grows up together has a built-in barrier to sexual activity, but that is missing in family members who do not know each other until they are adults. I am so sorry to have to even talk about this to you, but I think this is most definitely a deep deep emotional affair. I’m talking about madly in love emotional affair. I don’t know if it has managed to become sexual yet, but it is teetering very closely. These two did not know each other so there’s no barrier there. I don’t think you can tiptoe around this. You need to talk to a therapist about how to handle this and then you do something. This is your future you’re talking about.

Here’s the thing. Never underestimate the people fetishes.

There’s got to be a reason if porn site are choking full of "step mom - step bro - step dad- step sister- step cousin " porn.

And the reason is that "step" is just a camouflage password for incest fetish.

No matter how sickening it is, this shit is a turn on for a lot of unsuspectable people.
It might stop at the fantasy level, but I would not put my hand over fire.

When I say deeply devoted, I’m saying that she has never, and would never be physically intimate with anyone. Flirtatious? Yes. But only with this guy. She is not even comfortable, shaking hands with other men. And if I tell her that he is not welcome in our home unless I’m around at all times, she would honor that. And by not having inappropriate text messages, which is the place to have a secret conversation, that reinforces to me that she is not doing anything sexual. However, the emotional affair and the inappropriateness of the rest of it is what needs to be called out.

[This message edited by sawyerbrownlive at 4:43 PM, Wednesday, July 15th]

Emotional Affairs can be just as, if not more in some cases, damaging than Physical affairs.

Sawyer, not to get you paranoid and I hope it is all ‘innocent’ (I don’t see it as innocent, I see it as sexual intimacy outside the couple, but I don’t consider sex just penetration, I see it holistically).

If a partner is a cheater, a wayward partner goes to great length to hide their traces from the BS. It’s part of the excitement.

Burner phones, secret chats on self deleting apps, alternate accounts.

If you want to hide your secret communications in plain sight, there is plenty of options.

Not to get you into detective mode or paranoia, just mind that if she is aware you are checking her and she is truly having something to hide, then she could do it and use your circumspection as a gaslighting tool.

Is always the worst case scenario, just saying we’ve seen plenty of such things happen

When I say deeply devoted, I’m saying that she has never, and would never be physically intimate with anyone

This forum is full of people who thought the same thing only to find out it was foolish naivety. Were you to ask any of our family or friends if they could ever see my wife doing what she did and resounding answer would have been hell no, you are an idiot for even suggesting it. Yet here I am, on this forum :/

Your last message said he will not be in your house unless you are around but if I remember correctly you were going to install cameras to watch them while you left for the gym and then work?

[This message edited by WB1340 at 5:03 PM, Wednesday, July 15th]

Yup. "He/she isn't the type," or "he/she would NEVER" are some pretty infamous last words here. My wife gave me almost 27 years of fidelity without a hint of a possibility she would ever do something like that, and it took a co worker only about a month of effort to get her into a hotel room.

If there's one thing I've learned from this it's never assume you know someone as well as you think you do.

No, my last message said that if i told her that he is not to be in our house unless i'm around, she would honor that. She does not think that what she is doing is inappropriate. Since there's no sex, and no intentions except to be silly and have fun, it isn't inappropriate and i'm just jealous of the attention she's giving him. That's the issue. You all have confirmed that i'm not simply "jealous" and this is in fact inappropriate whether there is sex or intentions of sex, or not. I'm well aware that him being in my home creates opportunity, hence the camera. I will be shocked if i see/hear anything that comes close to sex. And since she's fine with the intimate hug and ignoring me in favor of him when i'm in the room, telling her that he is not welcome to stay at our house unless i'm there does nothing.

Also, this is important. She does not know that i check her phone. I've presented myself and proven for 26 years that i trust her. While we agree to have each others passcode, i've never checked on her until recently. The last couple of years. I only check her phone when she's in the shower or outside. I feel HORRIBLE when i do it, and yet the only thing i've found suspicious is her thanking him for the handwritten letter she got that day and that it was "riveting and worth the wait." I have looked in every hiding spot for that letter and cannot find it. If i ask her for the letter, i'm confident she would show me but it would also tip her off that i've been reading her messages.

Something is going on there that's not kosher. What exactly it is, I can't say. I can say that it makes you deeply uncomfortable. Perhaps an alternate tactic: Excuse yourself from events that include him. Go to a pub, friend's house or a movie. Just be gone. Don't announce that you're leaving, just leave. When asked, say why. Make it plain to everyone that she's breaching a boundary in your marriage. Either she cares about that or does not. When she wants to manipulate you into believing that you're the one out of line, don't engage in that conversation either. Head over to the pub or take a drive or whatever. Eventually, she will come to understand that this is not acceptable to you or she will continue to prioritize the cousin over you. Either way, you'll have your answer.

Look, I take a much dimmer view of this stuff. If it looks off, that's because it is. They have jokes about blowjobs? That's because they've shared that experience together. She's fawning over him. That's because she's in love with him. That stuff could have taken place when they were kids and she remembers it fondly and is only not with him because of the family relationship. Or, it could be a more recent event. You're going to have to decide how much of this you are willing to take. I'm not overly attached to anyone. In my life's experience, everyone leaves sooner or later. My father abandoned us, my mother was cold towards me as a kid. I have no lasting friendships. My wife of 21 years but our relationship is 38 years long, will eventually be just a memory. I know that and that makes me willing to cut ties. I'm considering just that over some things that I'm sure happened 35+ years ago. In your position, I'd make sure that she knows that you suspect something and don't accept it and be willing to walk. You don't need this aggravation, this woman or these people that enable her antics. You have just one life. Are you going to live it while sharing your wife? Because in many ways, that's exactly what you're doing.

You are spot on Onceasailor. All of you have been spot on for the most part. If she was talking about blowjobs in the sexual sense, trust me i would have bounced and made a scene. But it was walking a fine line but never crossing it. The blowjobs were not sexual, it was a term used to describe anything good...it was silly, goofy, funny, yet inappropriate for someone that doesn't engage in that kind of talk with her husband. Side note, i have done as you suggested. When we visit him and his siblings and mom, i have excused myself to go watch the game, go for a drink, or for a long walk. Just to get away. And i have expressed to her during our arguments over it, why i did that. She knows i don't want to see/hear it, but she doesn't see/hear herself so she thinks i'm overreacting. The last time we were visiting, i was in a work training an hour away for 2 weeks. So she flew up to see the family and i went over on the weekend. Sure enough, by saturday evening it was out of control and i wasn't comfortable being there. Hell i didn't feel welcomed or wanted by her, so i packed my bag and drove back to my hotel an hour away. I have no idea what she told her family when i wasn't there on Sunday. The other crazy part is her family loves me dearly. I have a great job, have great things, i have many people that look up to me. Her family is no different. Her cousin asks me questions, soaks in my advice, and puts me on a pedestal. When i say i didn't feel welcomed...it's not her family that makes it uncomfortable, it's only her.

I understand the feeling bad for searching around, is normal for a partner to feel horrible just for suspecting ill about our partner.

However she knows how uncomfortable you are and doesn’t feel horrible at all about ‘joking’ to suck her cousin dick. And the blowjob ‘joke’ wasn’t a one off like a shocker one liner to cause hilarity once.

He jokes about ‘holes’ and she jokes about ‘fitting in’…. I mean I understand the shock but I don’t think many people would disagree the joke line was passed so long ago that is beyond the horizon.

I tell you one thing. Ex playboy here. When a woman has eyes only for you, and sees through others, she is ready to be flipped on her back.

She should see you, and only you that way.
Also sexual innuendo. She should have the impulse to do that with you and only with you.

Not with her cousin.

That’s sexually charged teasing, and teasing is exciting.
I am not challenging you to slip a finger in her pants while she teases to see for yourself, because that’s inappropriate (though at this point I wonder if it is not just tame compared to the ‘jokes’) but maybe you can look at her cousin and see if there’s truly no "bulging" indicator as they tease.

Maybe accidentally join in the joke and tap his crotch briefly with a hand and an excuse like you would do with a close male friend.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you find any hard evidence of something going on.

Friend I am not just provoking you, like others I have been through betrayal and I don’t want you to feel the full extent of the blast that is finding out while you’re fighting against all your instincts to preserve your woman’s image of purity.

hope for the best, but still expect the worst. Is a safer approach.

Your wife is either in love or sexually involved with her cousin.
That’s so strongly apparent that feels certain.

While this isn’t a certainty that there was any intercourse between them ever or just yet, whether oral, hand, or full on penetration, it is mostly irrelevant (I know is not irrelevant but see the bigger picture).

She is boldly and cruelly betraying you, in front of your eyes no less.
When the intimacy that is reserved for the couple is redirected outside towards someone else, that’s betrayal. Even if it is not physical. Even if it’s a "joke".

Do you believe your relationship and your wife’s sexuality to be a joke?
I don’t think so.

She doesn’t care about how you feel, and women are generally pretty good at reading the other’s emotional state, hard to believe she is clueless about your discomfort.

But when he is around, her cousin seems to be the only man she’s caring and open to.

The letter is one secret you found she is keeping from you. That means there might be more. I know you love her and you would give away your liver rather than to find she is not the woman you believed in.

But there are a number of red flags 🚩 that would shame the Soviet parade.
Keeping your self grounded is simply bracing for a potential impact.

I do hope you dodge the bullet, still in the meanwhile wear a bulletproof vest.
Just in case

I have read threads on this site referring to Dr Frank Pittman’s writings on limerence.

I think you should read about that.

Her dismissal of her husband is the worst part. It demonstrates a total lack of respect

I hope all of us are waking you up to reality. Your wife is using the "cousin" as a smoke screen. He is her sweetheart. You have rights here. You can demand an end to this. You can forbid any interactions. What she does will tell you everything. Get ready. I see a giant tantrum in your future but you need concrete boundaries that she cannot cross. If she does you have your answer. If she chooses you, again, an answer.
This is not sustainable. You would be furious if this was just some guy she recently met and acted like this. Well, he is some guy she met, she acts like this, and fortunately for her she can pass this off as getting to know a relative. That old joke…who are you going to believe, her or your lying eyes. Believe your eyes and your intuition. It’s yelling at you through a megaphone..

There's a guy on here, screen name bigger. He has a speech that may be useful to you that you deliver and go make a sandwich. It might be time for that. She's not hearing your concern, her infatuation for, (love affair with) this guy is overriding any and all concern for you. I'm sorry brother, you are heading for a fall. Maybe talk to a lawyer, maybe even have papers ready for her. Something to make her understand how serious this is. But be ready to pull the plug on all of them. The rest of her family are not friends of the marriage here.

They look up to you? Well, they can watch you leave too and they can know that they had a hand in ending your marriage. If they have any concern for such things. They sound pretty clueless to me.